Sharyll Burroughs

Guest

Valerie C. Woods, is a writer/producer in television and film as well as a publisher, editor, and author. In 2022 she was a writer/co-executive producer on Season 1 of the Disney+ Emmy winning series, The Crossover. She also worked in the same capacity for the limited series The Big Cigar, now streaming on Apple TV+. Woods is currently developing, through her MCV Productions banner, a limited series based on Wrapped in Rainbows – The Life of Zora Neale Hurston, the award-winning biography written by Valerie Boyd.

PRODUCERS: Amy and Nancy Harrington, Vikki Mee

EDITORS: Amy and Nancy Harrington 

Music: Airtone - reNovation 

Transcript

<Music>

(Prelude) Verneice Turner as Hattie McDaniel: I have no quarrels with the NAACP or colored fans who object to the roles some of us play, but I naturally resent being completely ignored at the convention. I have struggled for 11 years. To open up opportunities for our group in the industry and have tried to reflect credit upon my race in exemplary conduct both on and off screen.

(Intro.) Sharyll Burroughs: This is The Hattie Project. I'm Sharyll Burroughs.

My guest is Valerie C. Woods, a writer, producer in television and film, as well as a publisher, editor, and author. In 2022, she was a writer, co-executive producer on season one of the Disney Plus Emmy winning series, “The Crossover.” She also worked in the same capacity for the limited series, “The Big Cigar,” now streaming on Apple TV+.

In her 25 plus years as a member of WGAW, Valerie has written one hour drama series for CBS, Lifetime, Netflix, OWN, and Showtime. Her writer-producer credits include “Sweet Magnolias,” “Clean Sugar,” and “Any Day Now.” Her “Family is Family,” episode for “Any Day Now” was nominated for a GLAAD Media Award. 

Woods is currently developing through her MCV Productions banner, three projects. A limited series based on Valerie Boyd's award-winning biography, “Wrapped in Rainbows: The Life of Zora Neale Hurston.” An episodic TV series adapted from Rebecca Weatherspoon's romance trilogies, “A Cowboy to Remember” and “The Cowboys of California.” And lastly, a screenplay adaptation of “Homecoming,” the historical Christmas romance written by NAACP award winning author Beverly Jenkins. 

Woods is a screenwriting mentor at the University of Georgia's Low Residency MFA in Narrative Media Writing.

My conversation with writer producer Valerie C. Woods continues as we explore Hattie McDaniel's difficulties with the NAACP, cultural representation, black history, and more. 

Sharyll Burroughs: After she won the Academy Award, she was featured on the cover of the NAACP's magazine called Crisis but she did have a somewhat contentious relationship with the head of the NAACP whose name was Walter White. He was the head of the Los Angeles branch of the NAACP. I just want to describe Mr. White a little bit. Mr. White epitomized the Jim Crow's one drop rule. He was extremely light skinned, probably lighter than say George Clooney. George Clooney's got a little bit of color to him, so. And he did, as a younger man, he did pass as white. You were legally considered African American if you had one drop of black blood during the Jim Crow era. 

Mr. White anointed himself as the liaison on all matters regarding any African Americans in the city of Los Angeles, particularly in Hollywood. The original script of “Gone with the Wind” liberally used the N-word. Both white and black characters used the N-word. It was removed. It's rumored it happened because Hattie refused to say it, but what actually happened was Walter White worked with David O. Selznick to take the word out and have the shooting script revised.

White publicly demanded that black actors stop, and I quote, “Mugging and playing the clown before the camera.” And he publicly referred to Hattie as an Uncle Tom because she kept playing these servant roles. In 1942, the NAACP held a meeting in Los Angeles attended by 10,000 delegates including Hattie. White came on stage and with him, the beautiful, slim, light skinned Lena Horne, the ideal black movie star, which is totally about colorism, in my opinion, which I think is still a plague in the African American community. During the same meeting, he announced he was negotiating directly with Hollywood studios to change the roles available to black actors which infuriated Hattie. As far as she was concerned, the only people who should have been negotiating were black SAG actors, including herself. So, she felt bullied by him and accused him of treating her, and I quote, “With the tone and manner that a southern colonel would use to his favorite slave.” What do you think about all of that? 

Valerie C. Woods: Well, have you ever read a book called “Our Kind of People?”

Sharyll Burroughs: I have not. 

Valerie C. Woods: It's a book that's, um, written by, um, a member of the black upper class. And, you know, that brown paper bag test is real. And where, if you're darker than the bag, you can't come to the party, you can't marry into the family. You know, you're not one of us. You're not our kind of people. And this proximity to whiteness kind of thing, which is what colorism is, um, it's, it's abhorrent, I think it's stupid, I think it's, it's only doing damage to our community. And, but that is very real, and is something that, you know, continues to this day, even though some people won't admit it, but it is true. And. You know, standards of beauty is something that, you know, that is the European model.

And we've had times when we've celebrated, um, at least in the fashion industry, um, different models who don't fit in, um, that standard Eurocentric mode, but it always comes back. And so it's… yeah, she was bullied by him.  I think it would have been better to attack and like, uh, rather than attack an individual, we would be better served to attack the structure, the racial structure of, um, colorism and misogyny and, and the, um, what, what created the studio system and don't blame her for playing a maid. Blame them for not making movies about black people that aren't subservient. Go there instead of attacking someone else, some individual.

Sharyll Burroughs: Cultural representation. Let's face it, a lot of those delegates at the NAACP were bougie Negroes. 

Valerie C. Woods: What Tyler Perry recently called “Highbrow Negroes.” So, this myth of cultural…

Sharyll Burroughs: Representation. 

Valerie C. Woods: Well, I think cultural representation. Is broader than what a lot of people assume. I mean, you can have, uh, Adam Sandler and a Leonardo DiCaprio, you can, uh, George Clooney and, uh, uh, and just. You know, Matt Damon, you know, but why are we all put into one thing and if we're not that one thing, then we're not authentic. And so that's where the change needs to broaden our understanding of cultural representation for African Americans. 

Um, I think I may have mentioned one of my favorite authors is Beverly Jenkins, who writes black historical romance. And you say, well, black historical romance, I mean, like “Bridgerton?” And it's like, in many ways, yes because this is all American. She writes historical romances of women doctors in the 1800s, train robbers, ranchers, seamstresses, mayors of all black towns, um, loggers. You know, uh, people who have, um, uh, property, you know, the, the blend of Mexican and African, um, you know, it's sort of Spanish and all the different ramifications from like, some of her earliest books are pirates in the 1700s to, uh, near the end of the Civil War and then from Emancipation to the late 1800s. And there is this, there's sailors and schoolteachers and buffalo soldiers and all of this broad spectrum of African American life that we've never seen in movies from a black perspective.

And I think there should be a Beverly Jenkins channel so that we can tell all of these stories, because I, that is the thing that, um, that needs to broaden and it's our understanding of black culture. It's not just one thing. It's not just Bel Air. It's not just the whole series that BMF or, you know, that's crime based or things like that. I mean, Julia showed us back in ‘68 when her show came up first black professional woman in a television series, um, there's so much more. We're not just... if you were to ask me, um, you know, we don't all just listen to the same music. We don't all read the same books. We need to open up the doors of cultural representation and show everything that, um, and make the movies that represent us in all of our beauty. And diversity, because there is diversity within the black community. 

Sharyll Burroughs: There is diversity within being an individual. We're not just one thing. Hattie was an actress, but because of her success, she could also be a philanthropist. She was also a socialite. She held salons for musicians and writers and artists and such. She was a feminist, and I know that the definition of feminism is quite broad, but I consider any woman who can take care of herself and not have to depend on a man as a feminist.

Valerie C. Woods: Exactly. And I think it's important when we talk about cultural representation, is the fact that we haven't told the broad spectrum. spectrum of African American life. You're either contemporary or you're either a sharecropper or an enslaved person. Yes, those people, those stories are important to tell. What about everything else in the middle? And what that denies America of is the story of African American participation. In the rebuilding of the country after the Civil War, if all you're going to talk about is, oh, you were enslaved and then you got free. And then there's the Harlem Renaissance. What happened in all those years between 1865 and 1900?

We've been erased from participation in our country's growth. You talk about music, you're gonna do movies, and there've been wonderful movies about, um, Ray Charles, and, um, Jackie Robinson, and all of these great historical, you know, hidden figures, fantastic. We were doing great things in 1898 too, and 1877. I optioned one of, um, Beverly Jenkins short stories about, it was a Christmas story. And I did research. Has there been a Christmas movie about African Americans in the 19th century? 

Sharyll Burroughs: Not to my knowledge, no. 

Valerie C. Woods: No. In fact, I couldn't find a Christmas movie featuring African Americans that was earlier than the 1960s. And it was the Bill Cosby animated series, “Fat Albert Christmas.” It's like, what, do we not celebrate Christmas before 1960?

Sharyll Burroughs: Apparently not. 

Valerie C. Woods: I mean, duh. So that's why I, you know, wanted to make that movie. And then of course, then the question is who's going to buy it. And it's like, oh, um, doing period pieces, hard, hard sell, blah, blah, blah. It's like, yes, tell that to the 14 television shows that have been nominated for Emmys that are period pieces, okay? Um, you know, “Gilded Age,” “The Crown,” “Bridgerton,” yeah, all of those are period pieces. But the question is, what stories from history matter to the powers that be in the studio system or in television? 

You know, even the author, um, Julia Quinn of, of Bridgerton at one point, and she's since recanted it, but, um, at one of the romance writers of America's things, you know, they were saying, how come you don't have any black characters in your books because all the black characters you see on, on “Bridgerton” TV show were created for the show. They don't exist in her novels. And she said at this conference, well, um, the key point of a romance is a happily ever after and I'm paraphrasing her, but in effect, she was saying that I didn't know any stories of happily ever afters in that time period for black people.

You didn't read any Beverly Jenkins books? You know? And the great thing about Jenkins books is that her novels have a bibliography at the end of all of her research material. You want to learn more about Lady Doctors? Read this book. You want to learn more about um, Buffalo Soldiers? Read this. Pirates? Read this. Cowboys? Read this. You know, so we need to work at creating cultural representation across all genres, across all time periods, uh, because we exist, and it reminds me of the story about “Star Trek,” Martin Luther King, and Lieutenant Uhura, who wanted to quit the show, and he said, “No, you can't. You are the first character that shows we survive in the future.” That's what you represent. Because no sci-fi had black people in it prior to that. So no, you're doing a great thing. And I love your show. So that's the importance of cultural representation.

Sharyll Burroughs: Well, and thinking about Hattie being pigeonholed because most people don't know the broader story of her life. What do you think about this bigger question as to whether Hattie was defined by racism?

Valerie C. Woods: Well, I think if you're gonna, if she was defined by racism, that's like asking is our country defined by racism? Are any of us defined by racism, whether we're white or black, because if you're white, how do you view people of color, and are your views defined by racism, and might determine what you write, or how you interact, defined by racism. Who controls the narrative is I think key in an answer to that kind to, that question.

Sharyll Burroughs: I think a lot of people don't believe that. They can't control their own narratives.

Valerie C. Woods: It's about being an independent spirit. It's about, uh, being how many of us are comfortable not conforming to the dictates of society. And many, many of us are not. Um, when you, especially when you have, oh gosh, I was just reading about a woman who, um, is now, has emancipated herself from a very strict evangelical environment.

And it used to be people would say, well, who are you voting for? And it's like, well, my husband is going to be voting. It's like, well, what do you think? And it's like, well, my husband is in charge of that. And it's real that people live this way. So, it is really up to the individual to choose their story.

And you cannot control the media, you can't control what people want to say, and I think it's important to, you know, when I think of Simone Biles or and I think of Michelle Obama or, um, people who are like, you know, they're going to write what they're going to write. You have to know who you are, and your legacy is often defined by other people. You can, not unless you write your Listen, let me talk about Zora Neale Hurston and writing her autobiography. She'd never wanted to write it, but her publisher was like, “Oh, you should write your story, blah, blah, blah.” And so, she wrote it in a way that she crafted what she wanted people to know. She made sure she controlled what was in there.

And there's so much that was left out. And the biography by Valerie Boyd, “Wrapped in Rainbows,” uncovers how much she controlled her own narrative in that memoir. And for anyone else, if you're going to write your own story, it's important to define yourself for yourself, recognizing what the world is, what hand you've been dealt. And I keep referring to Zora because I'm writing about her, but the things that she and Hattie had in common, defining themselves and finding a way through this society to create a world you can live in with integrity and on your terms. And those choices were limited and they continue to be limited to some degree, maybe not as much as in the twenties and the thirties and the forties. And of course, there are those who want to take us back to that limited, um, world of opportunity and options. 

And it's important and what I respect about Hattie McDaniel is that she had a gift that she wanted to share with the world. She did her best to do that with dignity. And when they. You know, but people are going to put their own. interpretation on what she did. But I think that she moved the conversation forward with her depiction, um, in “Gone with the Wind,” her Oscar nomination and winning, and the work she did outside of her career and the life she led. I have nothing but great things to say about her because she played the hand she was dealt.

 <Addendum>

Sharyll Burroughs: Valerie makes an important point. By achieving an autonomous, prosperous life, Hattie did indeed play the hand dealt by racism quite skillfully. Yet what later occurred to me was that white women played a significant role in perpetuating racism, especially affluent, class-conscious white women who fiercely identified as being superior. I'm not suggesting all white women were racists, but the intersections of race and white privilege can't be ignored. So, here's a question. What could Hattie have possibly had in common with the privileged white women of her era? 

Tobacco heiress and socialite Doris Duke donated funds to support and educate black students in the South who were disadvantaged because of racism.Hattie devoted herself to helping poor black children. She purchased musical instruments for a school in the Los Angeles area of Watts. And every Christmas she held parties at her home for underprivileged black children and distributed toys and gifts to poor black families. 

Novelist and art collector Gertrude Stein, the daughter of a wealthy businessman, held salons at her Paris residence for artists and writers including Pablo Picasso and James Joyce.Hattie hosted salons in her Los Angeles mansion for black musicians and actors such as Count Basie, Ethel Waters, Butterfly McQueen, and many more. 

During World War II, Eleanor Roosevelt, the First Lady of the United States, visited American troops in the South Pacific to boost morale. She also co-chaired the Office of Civilian Defense, which gave volunteers an expanded role in war preparations. Hattie was elected to the Hollywood Victory Committee, which provided entertainment to boost the morale of black troops. In addition, she toured military camps, veterans hospitals, and appeared at war bond rallies. 

In America, racial disparity has long been fueled by a society invested in divisiveness. This chronic dysfunction fosters belief systems that not only disregard the intricacies of African American culture but negate the individual experiences black people have each day, which by the way, may have nothing to do with racism. Therefore, we rarely get the whole story, which is why I prompted the comparison between Hattie and affluent white women. What did my question reveal? That equity shows up in ways we don't expect. Despite her racial and social status, Hattie shared one important attribute with Doris, Gertrude, and Eleanor, which speaks to the universality of the human condition. Each woman, in her own unique way, used her privilege to help fellow human beings. They shared a collective consciousness that was genuinely committed to the betterment of others. Just think what would happen if we followed their example, how our world would benefit if we all endeavored to do the same.

Sources

Hattie McDaniel: Black Ambition, White Hollywood, Jill Watts

The Icon and the Outcast: Hattie McDaniel’s Epic Double Life, Vanity Fair, Hadley Hall Meares, 2021

Beyond Tara: The Extraordinary Life of Hattie McDaniel – Whoopi Goldberg produced documentary, 2001 

Walter’s Thing: The NAACP’S Hollywood Bureau of 1946 – A Cautionary Tale, Thomas Cripps (2005)
Journal of Popular Film and Television - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3200/JPFT.33.2.116-125

hattiemcdaniel.com

Wikipedia

Expand your mind:
The Queen of Sugar Hill: A Novel of Hattie McDaniel, Reshonda Tate